Curse

Emik · Jan 30, 2007, 10:38 AM // 10:38

Wow i must say I'm impressed by your research.
Must make you feel like a real sport now.

Go ahead and moan some more coz you're the troll here.
I gave my opinion on the matter and all you do is come up with personal attacks.

Kudos

You know what?
Why don't you just suggest another boycot while you're at it.

Aeon_Xin · Jan 30, 2007, 11:26 AM // 11:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emik

Wow i must say I'm impressed by your research.
Must make you feel like a real sport now.

Go ahead and moan some more coz you're the troll here.
I gave my opinion on the matter and all you do is come up with personal attacks.

Kudos

You know what?
Why don't you just suggest another boycot while you're at it.

Contribute to the thread some more....
Troll

As for previous parts:
If you're talking about having guildies do everything for you anyways, you're basically getting ran, and happens quite frequently now. The suggestion just lets everyone do it, like suggested, make it a huge gold sink. It's not like the suggestion beats the game for the new character.

I've been invited to PvE guilds that do nothing but, and it really doesn't seem fun to me.

Those that argue that if the option is there you'll take it and not like it, that's your fault for having no self control. If you love PvE so much, that alone should propell you to play it normally, not to take a shortcut.

To those that say there is little enough to do already. That's the point, it allows players that have done so do by pass the little enough to do, and get to where they want to be.

Average quest: Talk to person A.
They say to go to location A and talk to so and so.
you kill stuff on way, and on way back sometimes.
Person B gives you XP.

Almost every quest is just like that, or a derivitave there of, where the person you talk to keeps becoming person A. It's formulaic and bland. A person should not be forced to do it again. PvPers have their favored shortcut right there at character creation.

You people are no better than the people who shoot down every other idea that makes sense, like extra storage, or improve trade system.

God damned troll griefers. You all end up reading like you're disagreeing just to disagree, because you don't like it is reason enough.
Newsflash, there's a world outside of your basement, and the rest of us are all in it. The world does not revolve around you, it goes around this big bright thing in the sky called a sun.
Jesus H. Johnson.

I'm done feeding the trolls here too, it's too much like feeding the geese, without the payoff.

Emik · Jan 30, 2007, 11:43 AM // 11:43

This game has a limit of lvl 20 and still you're complaining about it taking too long.
Games like Archlord and WoW have respective 100 and 70 lvl cap. Are MMORPG's compared to the CORPG GW profiles itself as. I know several persons who play one of those and I've never heard anyone of them complain about how long it takes to get somewhere.
Why? becoz they actually feel like having accomplished something.
Here everything has quick access, there's travel function, quick levelling by insane high XP rewards eand still this isn't enough
You know what?
Why don't you just take that all away and let you work for what you want to acquire. Run all the way through Tyria, Elona and Cantha without a single hit of the travel button.
Take awayhenchies and heroes and rely on PUG's which you so darn well like to tear down coz their skill level doesn't match yours.

Result: more moaning about how long everything takes
Want to achieve something? work for it?
Can't be arsed then hold your comments and stop playing the game.

lyra_song · Jan 30, 2007, 02:07 PM // 14:07

Now now people.

We can disagree and still remain civil and not result to flaming and flamebaiting. -.-

Let people have their opinions regardless of their reasons. Like it or not, thats their opinion. When people start spouting off opinions as fact, thats when you should be outraged.

Imo, account based unlocks should remain a PvP related thing and character based unlocks should be a PvE related thing.

BryanM · Jan 30, 2007, 11:08 PM // 23:08

I would prefer that the game be entirely account based - so many times have I gone through the game, so asinine it all becomes. There's a 0% chance something I'll actually use at level 20 will ever drop, anywhere.

I wanted to go into the Tombs with my ritualist once. It was going to be an awesome time. But! I did not have that waypoint. It was an extreme downer.

By the time we have chapter eight in about 1.5 years, that's 20 base classes. A primary in each, playing through all of the areas, is beating the game 160 times. Currently it is a more humanly performable 30 times. I've resigned to just playing through with the native classes to a campaign, plus one single "main" so I can participate with my guild regardless where the action is going on, and have meaningful progress in the character-specific titles.

I hate having a "main" character, because it is dumb. Dumb dumb dumb. Don't want to be tied to one class for most of the rest of my GW life.

PvE is not the way to go...

I would be semi-happy with just that upgrade trader, though. Collectors will always be a tiny grind (the limited inventory is a drag here - the number of wings and horns and such I have is epic) and the most viable choice for outfitting the few heroes I care about.

OhCrapLions · Jan 31, 2007, 04:18 AM // 04:18

/signed if optional

I like this idea but please please please make it optional.

Like lets say I make a new character, and I have the option to go to the end. When I open up my map, it will appear as though I have been to all these places but the places that the character I'm using hasn't been will be in black and white. when I attempt to enter the area for that character and confirmation message will pop up asking me if I want to skip all those other areas.

Or if I want to use skills or heroes that character hasn't unlocked yet, when I try to use it, I will get a confirmation notice. Skills for that character that havent unlocked will appear in black in white and are also toggle able (see/not see).

Leveling, acquiring new skill, armor, weapons, runes etc. are all done manually for each character.

BahamutKaiser · Jan 31, 2007, 04:54 AM // 04:54

It is so easy to get to level 20, that it doesn't amount to much, so pretending like it actually matters if the character is lvl 2 or lvl 20 is completely ignorant. It is more than obvious that this game was developed to undermine the value of character developement by restraining its max to 20, and even more obvious since you can make lvl 20 in a matter of hours with the extreme exp bonuses and advancement in recent chapters.

So if you manage to get some help and get to ascention before level 20.... than you have achieved the task none the less.

Beyond that, it is of little consiquence if one threshold is not sufficient, you can easily increase the threshold to require lvl 20, or require an entire campaign to be defeated, reguardless of the threshold, the idea is still sound and appealing, and it doesn't matter if it is easy to achieve it.

But most of all, describing someone elses experience as justification to discard the interest of others is completely meaningless, nobody cares how your friend plays the game, nor what he has achieved. The topic is about improving the gameplay, and it doesn't matter what someone else has accomplished beforehand.

The same retarded arguement could be placed on dozens of situations throughought GW, we shouldn't allow skill capture alterations because other people tried harder to get them, or we shouldn't start heros at lvl 15 because others went through the trouble of developing them. A suggestion revolves around the improvement it can offer to gameplay, not by what others have struggled through. Trying to limit others with obsolete difficulties because you or others have overcome them is ignorance, the obvious path to growth is to remedy an undesirable situation so it no longer creates hardship.

If it were for people like Emik, people would have never accepted cars because others tolk the time to ride the distance, and never invented modern heat because others have struggled with fireplaces, and we would never have computers because others succeeded in communicating with mail. The difficulty of some is not a status to maintain on others, that is purely ignorant.

And Finally, whether you agree with it or not, this game has a halmark status of upholding skill instead of time played, so whether or not you respect the difficulty you or your friends spent grinding for completion and abilities, the game has a status of rewarding skill instead of time wasted developing your character that way you can actually start enjoying the game.
Such moronic gameplay has been rejected by Anet, and it is the reason people choose GW instead of WoW or other online RPGs, so pretending like it doesn't belong here, or because you personally don't want it isn't really important to me. This game is cannonized toward the action instead of developement interest. And if you don't like it, who cares, that is what this game stands for.
A good game revolves around having interesting things to do, not repeating character developement literally a dozen times for hundreds of hrs, repeating skill aquisition and exploration of the same location over and over agian with every character. You can return and play the parts of the chapter you enjoy whether you are map restricted or not, forcing everyone to complete every task with every character that they do not want to isn't something to do, it is something in the way of enjoying what they want. If it is what you like, than you do it, it is not something everyone else needs to do.

These are the basics of developing a good game, a game which is about enjoyable features and interesting gameplay instead of filler ingredients to occupy your time and restrain you. When all the monotinous crap is circumvented and replaced with enjoyable features and activities, than you will have a truely golden game. Anet knows which steps to take next, they just need to get proactive and take them, fools will understand by experience, obviously they lack the mindset to appreciate features beyond what they are already experiencing, which is why they defend monotinous tasks.

blakecraw · Jan 31, 2007, 05:16 AM // 05:16

/signed

GW is getting pretty darn big what with the quick release cycle of new chapters, and as I get more characters it's not reasonable to be taking them all through every campaign, just to get end game stuff, or an outpost, or all the elites I need. And then of course back-tracking to get my new professions through old campaigns. It's a nightmare!

Maybe make some PvE type of balthazar faction, and use it to unlock outposts or skills, or whatever else there is to unlock, or at least make elites unlockable for purchase like other skills. <--- Just a thought

Akhilleus · Jan 31, 2007, 05:17 AM // 05:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinraith

No, no, no. PvP should be account based, PvE should be character based or there'd be no point. What you're proposing would make it pointless to play through the game with more than one character, essentially. This is one of those dreaded changes that would instantly cause me to stop playing the game entirely were it to come about.

If you don't like playing through the game, why are you playing the game?

Emphatically, desperately /not signed

The threat of this kind of thing is why I usually don't even play online games.

agreed.

the whole idea is that with pve, from the begining onward you're learning how to use the new character or the new skills presented and to experience the storyline, etc.
while i agree some of it is annoying repetitive busy work, i will 100% disagree that it should be removed and i have 17 lvl 20s that i use with varying degrees of regularity, while working on an additional 4 more (and an additional 6 that i did extensive work on for chapter 1, but stopped developing when factions came out); many are obviously doubbles of a certain class.
and if you think advancing through the same crap is lame, imagine capping the same elite skill numerous times.
it sucks.
however, thats the price i pay for making numerous pve characters and not neglecting them. if you want to have 1 character of each class its going to take more work than someone who only has 1 character of 1 class...and rightfully so.
if my warrior has access to every location in all 3 games that does NOT mean my other characters should. if anything, this suggestion would make the reliance on heros even more important, since you'd never be able to tell whether that person youre about to group with got there with that particular characters own merrits (and its hard enough to judge this as is), or vicarously through the achievements of another character on the account.

if you dont like the work involved, dont pve, its that simple.

/notsigned

-Akh.

Tempy · Jan 31, 2007, 06:29 AM // 06:29

I like how everyone keeps saying PvE should be chara based and PvP should stay account based....WHY? What makes your time and energy spent anymore valueable than mine? No one has given a decent arguement on that...because that is how it is, is not an argument/debate. Because PvP is better is not either...or any of the other PvE is already too easy blah blah blah...doing things a million times doesn't make it any more difficult, unless your idea of difficulty is fighting tedious boring tasks.

I don't see a package for the games that allows PvE to unlock all the skills at once for a small price!

N E D M · Jan 31, 2007, 06:56 AM // 06:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by bizarre_status

/signed for unlocking skill when ascended or completing the game like in factions or nightfall where u exchange amulet for green item, they should add npc that would unlock skill that u have learned with other charecters

ummm they have that, it's called a skill trainer- you can buy any skills you have unlocked on other characters, barring elites.

/totally NOT SIGNED
Absurd .
Your new level 2 character would have access to lvl 20 heroes???
not going to happen.

Emik · Jan 31, 2007, 07:41 AM // 07:41

People stating that the 'grind' as they call it here is too preposturous should better take another look at the game.
It takes no time at all to make lvl 20, heroes level 4 times as fast as yourself and don't require special merits to make them functional.
If you want to buy superior runes for your heroes do so but don't come here and expect a free ride.
I have 4 characters with all heroes unlocked. Not all of them are lvl 20 yet but i don't care because having heroes with you is NOT a necessity
Keep in mind that a good 4 months ago there were no heroes.
Now you got them and again there's complaints.
Same goes for skills.
While i won't deny that getting an awful lot of skills is expensive and that gold comes through killing things (if you're not farming it) which can take some time, there is no obligation for you to buy every skill there is for every character you got unless you choose to.
But that's what it is in the end... a choice. Don't like it then don't do it.

@ Bahamut

What kind of comment is that?
So you're saying that i'm not open for new ideas?
If people like me weren't here you'd go along with every silly suggestion ever made and wow... would it be interesting.

I know I'm not eh only one who's finding this a retarded idea.
Don't want the hassle to get 24 characters through a game?
Can't find the time to level all of them and give them good weapons and skills?
THEN DON'T CREATE THEM
The reason why PvP has access to accountwide unlocked skills is becoz it's supposed to be easy to reroll a character.
This is not the case witrh a PvE character and therefor should only be restricted to on character at the time.

BryanM · Jan 31, 2007, 06:53 PM // 18:53

I reiterate: beating the game one hundred and sixty times. That's what we're looking forward to.

It was borderline tolerable with one campaign. Skills as a gold sink is tolerable. Heroes as a gold sink is tolerable. Lord knows major runes are cheap.

Having to go through the entire game thirty times right now is not.

Dougal Kronik · Jan 31, 2007, 08:44 PM // 20:44

The only way I would even consider signing this, would be if they moved the ascension and equivalent to later areas in all campaigns.

If you can unlock areas once you're Ascended, make the ascension point:

Tyria: Hell's Precipice
Cantha: Imperial Sanctum
Elona: Abaddon's Gate

BryanM · Jan 31, 2007, 09:02 PM // 21:02

Completing one game for a character would be fine. Currently I only play through up to the elites I want for my "alts" in campaigns.

clawofcrimson · Jan 31, 2007, 10:19 PM // 22:19

/definitely not signed...

what is the difference between pvp and pve??? ..... oh yeah...this very thing

Ravious · Jan 31, 2007, 10:47 PM // 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akhilleus

if you dont like the work involved, dont pve, its that simple.

I'd like to make a general rebuttal on this point. The whole goal of my idea is to get rid of "work." Work is not fun. Games are supposed to be fun. Therefore work has no place in games.

People who have time, and usually no jobs, families, significant others, etc., seem to believe that because they have more time to "work" that they deserve to have access to content in ways a casual gamer could not achieve.

Now, I agree that there has to be something for "people who have time" in the ways of rare skins, elite areas, 15k armor, titles, etc., but access to areas already explored should not be it. Allowing casual players easier access to areas and heroes does not take away an "eliteness" of the aforementioned. And, finally to retort one specific attempt at an argument: Sure, a less played character could enter the Elite Areas, but they still have to be played. This isn't a win button.

Do you think it is fun that in order to go get some Jade Sea elite skills for your Elonian you have to grind out 10,000 Luxon Faction? Do you think that it is fun to have to play through most of NF to get the Hero you are dying to try and make combos with? Finally, do you think that because all you have is more time that you deserve to have access to these things on more characters?

I agree now that it should be purely optional, but it should exist.

The reason for this suggestion is simple: I want to play more Guild Wars. I only have a very limited time to play, and so when I play I want to have fun. I don't want to work because that is what I usually do when I am not playing Guild Wars.

Finally, when arguing... you might be a little more persuasive if you learned simple sentence and paragraph structure. Just a hint for your well-being in our society.